Reply # 4 by Kurt Vetterli
only once (to complete the part then really) very briefly to your statements about the subordination and culture : I am always with your remarks about the team management of the man, and so agree, agrees. Only just I think there clearly is something else to wear head scarves instead of wedding rings to fold his hands instead of pick up or whether one or the (mixed-gender) community authoritatively teaches or not.
But I see that I am at that point would only repeat what does not continue this discussion .... Shortly
something on to your next point man of a woman. You say: In the simple phrase "husband of one wife" is the "man" binding, but not "a woman".
No, I think both are authentic. Just that thing for "husband of one wife," the number word ' a' must stress. But I think I have mentioned already once before. Again, I would wiederholfen me ...
And the thing with the obedient, faithful and believing children - or even children - is a much debated matter, even among those who do not see conducting a community service for the woman. There is such a need here to say that a pastor or elder to give up his position when, for example one of his children turn away from faith. There are all sorts of conclusions drawn from these statements. I think it would go too far here, all of these design variants below, to discuss our issue.
The argument that if Phoebe is mentioned as a servant of the church, as Paul servant of the church is called, that you then use this in you should see it as a title, I find something far-fetched. These words mean but simply that both serve the community. It could be any Christian who is committed in any way for the community is doing any service to be called servants of the community, without being so holds a position of authority, which is similar to that of Paul ...
but now I would definitely leave this point, I think, because we would only turn in circles. Let's go to the point of reasoning with the order of creation about
For your question about the guilt of the woman (Eve) in the fall I'm not quite sure I understand what you want to ask .... Let me put it this way:
course, Adam was not deceived, when Paul says so. Or would you build your position in favor of a contradiction in Scripture? ;-)
I believe that in 1 Timothy 2:14 comes to say that it (by the two people present) was not Adam who was fooled by the snake, and first fell into sin. The gateway for the sin was the woman. But the blame lies with Adam, because he had the situation not according to its Responsibility under control. He has cast its spiritual leadership responsibilities as Federal Capital is not exercised, but left his wife. This came into the sin of the woman in humanity. Paul leads the in the context because he wants the men in this responsibility. They should exercise the spiritual leadership in the community. For women, a fundamentally different role is, see V. 15
When Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:33 f scheibt:
As in all communities of believers, not the women in the communities because it is not lawful for them to talk, but they should be subordinate, as even the law says . ..
... then he speaks also this thing on. The only place in the law, this is where something is, after the Fall (Gen 3:16): will be your desire, and he shall rule over thee to thy husband!
The desire of the woman after the man is the publishers to define him. This is a consequence of sin. This is not to be so. The man should exercise its responsibility as a principal. In the community including the fact that he does not draw the line of responsibility to women. For the woman who teaches and practices guides, authority over a man (their own and others) from.
summarized the whole thing again: The fall was the hierarchical order of gender confusion. Why was the sin in the world. Paul recalls, because he wants to stop the men not to reinstate in a manner so that women come in a spiritual leadership position (as Eva had held them in the Fall). For this very reason, he links the teachers and administration ban on women with the order of creation and the fall.
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